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Speaker 1 (00:00:12):

You are listening to the Journey on podcast with Warwick Schiller. Warwick is a horseman trainer,

international clinician and author who helps empower horse people from all over the world with the

skills, knowledge, and mindsets needed to create trusting partnerships with their horses. Warwick offers

a free seven day trial to his comprehensive online video library that includes hundreds of full length

training videos and several home study [email protected].

Warwick Schiller (00:00:45):

Welcome back to The Journey on podcast. I'm your host Warwick Schiller, and I have an amazing guest

for you guys today. My guest is a lady from New Zealand named Lucy Grace and Lucy's occupation, as it

says on her website, is spiritual guide, embodied therapist and poet. And if you're not into any of those

sorts of things and you a little bit scared already, don't be. Lucy has an amazing story. Grew up in what

you might call a low socioeconomic environment that would be quite scary for most people, but I think

that's something that may have really shaped who she's and how she shows up in the world. But this

conversation, I've had some pretty amazing conversations on the podcast. Definitely going to rate this

one up there as one of the most profound, even if you're not terribly woo at all, I guarantee you'll get a

lot out of this conversation. She can really get across pretty deep ideas in a way that everybody can

understand. So I am pretty sure you guys will enjoy this conversation as much as I did. So here's my

conversation with the amazing Lucy Grace. Lucy Grace, welcome to the Journey on podcast.

Lucy Grace (00:02:07):

Great to be here. Thank you for having me.

Warwick Schiller (00:02:10):

Oh, I'm excited to have this conversation with you. This is going to be like the three degrees of

separation from Emily Ter. So Emily was on the podcast here a while ago and kind of blew us all away. I

think she was episode 120 and it was kind of like we had to have 119 episodes before that to get people

to where they were ready to hear what Emily had to hear. And on that podcast she mentioned Shalan

Harken. And so I posted on Facebook something about that and Shalan Harken actually commented on

it. And so I reached out to her and said, do you want to be on the podcast? And Shalan was on the

podcast and then Shalan told you about my podcast. But the thing I wanted to say here was Emily has

asked you and Shalan to go to Sweden to do a retreat at her place in Sweden. So yeah, it's kind of like all

coming together.

Lucy Grace (00:03:14):

It's beautiful, isn't it? It's beautiful how we're so interconnected. We're so interconnected, and it's just

this energetic magnetism that happens when we're vibrating at this similar space, at this similar level.

We'll just bring each other in. It's a miracle.

Warwick Schiller (00:03:31):

Yeah. I want to ask, so you said, I think you told me that Emily reached out to you to reach out to Shalan.

Is that right?

Lucy Grace (00:03:40):

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She reached out to me to ask to say We'd love you and Shalan. We love both you and Shalan, her and

Emma, her assistant. We love both you and Shalan, and we wondered if you wanted to come because

I'm a poet. I'm a mystical poet. LAN's a mystical poet, and she said, we wonder if you guys would want

to come and do a writing retreat in Sweden. And it took me about three seconds to say yes because in

such awe of her wisdom and beauty and grounded, grounded sense of things of the mystical. And so I

said yes, and we've had some chats back and forth about how we'll do it. And it looks like it's going to be

August next year in Sweden this summer. And Shalan and I are going to pop over and we're going to do

probably four or five days, maybe a bit longer, and it's going to be really, we're going to go deep.

(00:04:31):

We're go into, we're going to do some somatic writing practices with people who might want to do

some writing to bring out what's within, and we're going to look at some equine therapy with her as

well, which will be beautiful. I think we're still in conversation and it's still developing, but it's penciled in

for those dates in August and we are looking forward to it. We're looking forward to it. Even just being

with one another in that field is magic, right? When you get a group of people together, we're hoping to

get 20 or 30 people along to that with the three of us as well. When you get people like that all in one

place, I mean, you can't stop the magic can you, because that's the energy of the field is just going to

have its own way of things

Warwick Schiller (00:05:19):

When you get people at that wavelength all in the same place. We had a podcast summit last year in San

Antonio. We're having another one this year too, and I've just come back from one in Australia. But

what we did was we got 22 of the guests from the first year of the podcast and we had 'em present over

three days, like 250 people in San Antonio. And the energy was crazy nutty for a couple of days before I

felt like the floor was moving. It felt like vertigo, except it wasn't coming from my head. It was coming

from my feet. It felt like the floor was kind moving. And I thought, that's really weird. And one day I was

introduced, one of the mornings I was doing the introductions or whatever, and I said to the crowd of

people, I said, this might sound weird, but for the last couple of days I felt like the floor's been moving

and half of the room shot their hand up and said, me too.

(00:06:15):

It was that sort of energy. And the energy was the same at the recent one in Australia, but we've been

running some retreats here at our place, and it's so interesting, the energy of a group of people. I do a

Dr. Joe dispenser meditation relatively often, and one day at one of the retreats, or most of the retreats

actually, we will put a horse loose in the arena and we'll put chairs in a circle and we'll meditate to this

Dr. Joe dispenser meditation. And I've done it quite a bit. And usually the horse will, it's funny, the horse

will go around and provide different things to different people. It's really interesting. But for me, that

same meditation is totally different with that group of people than it is when they're not there. You

know what I mean? So I'm just talking about that combined energy.

Lucy Grace (00:07:12):

Yeah. Well, we know we can measure this, right? I love this stuff. There's an organization called

HeartMath, and they have machines, you probably know where they can measure the electromagnetic

field of human hearts. And Sufis and other traditions have been saying for years that the heart is the

center of intelligence, not the brain that everything's held in. And we can measure the heart, the

electromagnetic fields of the heart three meters out and the brain only a few inches out. So that's just

that science. We can measure that. And so if you think of getting all those hearts in a room and those

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electromagnetic fields combining, then it's creating something tangible and measurable, let alone the

horses. I read something the other day that said horses have three times that the electromagnetic fields

in their heart. Now people, I'm not an expert, you guys will probably know better than me.

(00:08:10):

And so they were saying, this is why equine therapy is so powerful because of that electromagnetic field

coming from the horse's heart. And I love this, and that's measurable. This isn't woo woo funny stuff.

We've starting to create instruments. Now we can measure this, and I love this. What happens when we

physically get together in one space? What takes over the unseen? We can't see it with our eyes, but it

doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just like we couldn't see bacteria before we had microscopes to measure

it. It didn't mean the bacteria didn't exist, it just meant we didn't have the tool to measure it. So what

happens when we get 30 people in a room with shalan and me and the horses and Emil, and what

happens there? What happens and magic happens? That's what,

Warwick Schiller (00:09:04):

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's going to be pretty amazing. So let's get onto your story. So it says you are a

spiritual guide, embodied therapist and poet, and those are not things that you, when you're in high

school, you go, yes, I'm going to go to college, I'm going to study spiritual guide, embodied therapist and

poet. So it's one of those things that's not your average occupation. So I want to unravel how you came

to be doing that. You've done a lot of other different things in your life.

Lucy Grace (00:09:43):

I have.

Warwick Schiller (00:09:44):

Can we start out with your childhood? Where'd you grow up and what was that like?

Lucy Grace (00:09:51):

Yeah, so you're right. I absolutely didn't plan this. It's more of a listening to life and moving with life,

which people listening will know about when we know the deepest thing. But childhood for me was the

first, I would say 37 years of life contained a lot of suffering. And childhood was no exception to that. It

was the beginning of that. So I was born to a solo mom in New Zealand who was kicked out of home for

being pregnant. She was young, she was 20, she'd already had one child that she had adopted out and

was kind of forced to adopt him out by her very religious family when she was pregnant. And she was in

such grief about giving that child away that she got pregnant with me. And we didn't know who the

father was. There were three options and all three left.

(00:10:46):

They all said, dear on your own. And in those days, d n a testing was so expensive. So that left us on our

own and we ended up in a woman's refuge home. So I was born in a woman's refuge home, and when I

was five, we ended up settling. We went from couch to couch for the first five years, whoever would

have us every now and then, we had a little rental property where mom might clean the big house, and

we lived in the little house of the fancy people. Now, I just remember a lot of joy as well. You know how

things aren't black and white, so that we were quite poor and we didn't have a lot and we had to go

from couch to couch. And there was a lot of grief in that for me, because memories like the children

who lived in that house, we would be on the couch, but those children had beautiful bedrooms full of

toys, and I would look longingly at their toys and I wasn't allowed to play with them very much and

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things like that. So there was a lot of grief, but there was also beauty from a very young age, I was filled

with a sense of joy, kind of ordinary joy. The beingness of me felt like that. People talk about anxiety and

childhood and things, and that wasn't my experience. I remember a lot of ordinary joy and when I was

fine.

Warwick Schiller (00:12:05):

That's interesting because it's almost like you had every right to be anxious or sad or any number of

things in the circumstances you grew up in and you had this joy. Do you have any sense of where that

came from or why you showed up that way in

Lucy Grace (00:12:31):

Idea, very

Warwick Schiller (00:12:31):

Harrowing circumstances, idea?

Lucy Grace (00:12:34):

I have no idea. To this day, my aunt and uncle often say to me, you were like this little Buddha baby. We

would mind you for your mother. And you would wake up in the morning and you'd just lie in your crib.

They would say, you wouldn't even cry to be picked up. And you'd just lie there staring for hours. And

I've always been like that. My nourishment has come from inside. I've just found this kind of pool of yes,

simple joy, ordinary joy. And I couldn't tell you why. It's not a virtue. It's not. I've done nothing good to

get that. I don't know why. And then when I was five, we managed to buy a house. Mum saved from

cleaning other houses. We managed to buy a little house in a really rough neighborhood, one of the

roughest neighborhoods in New Zealand full of gangs. And where

Warwick Schiller (00:13:23):

Is that?

Lucy Grace (00:13:24):

It's in Fairfield. In Hamilton. So back in those days, it was, if you picture state housing with graffiti on the

outside, barefoot kids bombed out cars on the yards for a year or two. The police, sorry, the postman

couldn't come down our street and deliver the post they were getting shot at. And we don't even have

guns in New Zealand. It's not like the US where there's guns, we don't have 'em. And this

Warwick Schiller (00:13:54):

Is in Hamilton?

Lucy Grace (00:13:56):

Yeah, a place called Hamilton.

Warwick Schiller (00:13:58):

Really? I've been to Hamilton. I used to presented a horse expo there.

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Lucy Grace (00:14:02):

Yeah, it's

Warwick Schiller (00:14:02):

Gorgeous. Or something out at Mystery Creek. And I never thought of Hamilton. Looks like this rural

bucolic setting. That's when you said gangs and things like that. I was thinking like Auckland near the

airport or something or other, you know what I mean? Once for Warriors type

Lucy Grace (00:14:19):

Situation. Exactly. Once for Warriors, exactly like that. I can't believe you've seen that. I don't know any

people in the US that have seen that. My childhood was exactly like that. I was the only white girl in my

street. The state housing was like that. It was exactly that. Hamilton has its fancy places. It can be

beautiful like horses in the river, and it has its wealth like a lot of places. And it has its deep, deep

poverty, especially back in the eighties then. But it's still there now. A lot of it's been ified.

Warwick Schiller (00:14:49):

I wasn't aware of that. You said can't believe anybody in the US has seen once for Warriors. Do you

know that they actually use that movie in rehabilitating domestic violence offenders in the us.

Lucy Grace (00:15:06):

Wow, that is incredible. I love that. Wow. That's

Warwick Schiller (00:15:12):

Amazing. Because it's so powerful to watch it. It's like a slap in the, I imagine for a domestic violence

offender. Its like a slap in the face. It really shows them what's going on. But yeah, that movie is,

Lucy Grace (00:15:31):

That's right. And look, there's a lot of Kiwis who don't know, and especially because I look like a girl who

had a trust fund, and I can sound like that. I taught myself, there was a point at school where I'll go into

that later actually, but I taught myself to speak differently and to walk differently. But where I grew up,

from five onwards until I was 18, we were in this one house and there was a huge amount of violence. It

was exactly like that. So we were broken into probably at least every month. It was just mom and I on

our own and we were kind of sitting ducks in that way. People knew there was a woman and a young girl

and there was no man in the house and they knew. So we got targeted a lot and we had bars on the

windows, we had locks on the inside of all the doors.

(00:16:29):

So inside the bedrooms had these big bolts so that if someone broke into the kitchen when we were in

the bedroom asleep, we could quickly get up and lock ourselves in the bedroom so they couldn't get to

us. We had two doors, two front doors so that we could open one and look through a screen to see who

was there. And it had bars on it, so it was safe. We had these cans that made a really loud noise beside

the bed. It was big. It was real. And many things happened in that time. Many, many things that the

gangs were rife. And to get into a gang, you were often given challenges that you had to do. And one of

those challenges could be to rape a woman in front of their children. So when I was eight, someone

broke in with that intention.

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(00:17:18):

He was only 18 or 16, I can't remember. I think he was 16. He seemed really old to me at the time, but I

was eight. And that was his task. To get into the gang, you have to rape. So he broke into our house. He

got in, and that night I remember I was in bed and I was tossing and turning. I could not sleep. It felt like

there was this presence kind of waking me. I just kept and I felt this, I can't sleep. And I ended up

hearing someone in the hallway with mum and I went out and I actually saw him. He already had her

handbag and what me money she would've had in there, but I actually went and called the police. She'd

always said, if you can grab the phone and called the police. So we kept phones in lots of rooms in the

house for that purpose.

(00:18:12):

So I did. I called the police and and he was in the hallway and I went into the bedroom and sat and head

in the corner and I was on the phone to the police and he came in and pushed her on the bed and

started beating her up and was going to rape her. And then he turned and he saw me and mom

obviously freaked out and said, please don't hurt my baby, please. And then he realized I was on the

phone and it was the police on the other end. He grabbed it out of me and they said, it's the police we're

on our way. And he ran off.

(00:18:43):

But a week later, he was successful in raping another woman. So we got really lucky, and I often felt like

that. I often wondered, we had a lot of close calls. I was beaten up some times, but I never really got

seriously, seriously hurt. I was never really exposed to anything. I mean, all of that is traumatic. Later in

life I was diagnosed with P T S D and lying in bed when torches were coming through the window was

actually often far more terrifying to me. I think as an eight year old, I didn't quite realize the severity of

the situation with someone breaking in to do that to mom. I didn't know what they were thinking. I just

thought he's going to hurt her. But I didn't know how later in life I realized. And so childhood was a mix

of this. It was a mix of a lot of different kinds of violence. I had very few toys, but sometimes they would

break in when we were gone and they would just smash up the toys with baseball bats instead of

stealing them. Things like that were a lot of grief for a young heart. We often didn't have enough food to

eat.

(00:20:02):

There were times where we'd go for a day or two without eating and we'd just have to wait for the

welfare check to come in. And that was okay. That was okay. I learned a lot. I learned that a human

being can go without food for the tummy, but what was hard for me was food for my heart, for my soul.

My mom also had mental health issues and things, and she was very up and down and she loved me

deeply. It was just the two of us, obviously in the house for the whole 18 years. She loved me deeply.

She was incredibly sensitive and kind and kind of the black sheep of her family from a very religious

family where she'd been more rock and roll and having kids young and things. But she also was

incredibly kind and wise and connected. We didn't have a car.

(00:21:04):

We were so poor. So we used to walk everywhere and look at the trees and the birds and she would

point out nature and that connection. And she had so much wisdom around humans. If I was at school, I

remember coming home and saying, this person was so mean to me that they call me ugly. And she

would say, their hearts are hurting people don't hurt others unless they're in pain. So she taught me a

lot of really, really in seeing into humans. And another gift I got from mum, she had no expectations of

me. I never grew up with an external gaze that said, in order to be loved, you have to be, do become

anything. You don't have to be a lawyer, a doctor, she used to say, Lucy, I love you exactly as you are.

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And she said it over and over again. She would say, you can end up in jail and I will love you. And

something in that you ask, why did I have ordinary joy? Honestly, Warwick, I think a lot of it looking back

is that I didn't feel, I felt deeply loved and deeply lovable no matter what I was or did or became because

I existed.

Warwick Schiller (00:22:35):

That's fascinating. I follow a lot on social media stuff on say, Instagram, whatever. I follow a lot of

therapists. Social media gives you lots of whatever you look at, you know what I mean? And so on. Say

Instagram, I follow lots of therapists. And one of the main topics of conversation with any therapist is

having people realize their own self-worth or having people overcome their childhood of where you got

recognition for doing things. And so you had to achieve things in order to receive love.

Lucy Grace (00:23:24):

That's right. That

Warwick Schiller (00:23:25):

Seems there's so much unraveling in that. And it sounds like even though you had some pretty crazy

circumstances, you didn't have that. And it's like, that's it. Growing up the way you grew up, you should

be probably institutionalized or have serious issues. You know what I mean? But that's one thing that

you didn't have. And yeah, that's fascinating to me.

Lucy Grace (00:23:58):

I think it's layered, so there's more to it. But yes, absolutely. And I also didn't have it from culture

because we get these messages that in order to be enough, in order to be worthy, we have to do

become achieved. But we don't just get them from our parents, especially American culture and that

kiwi as well. We get them from television, we get them from sororities, we get them from teachers, we

get them from school, we get them from bosses. Every piece of culture, literature, social media is

sending us the message that we're not enough justice. We are. And so we go out and we try and

accumulate light. We try and accumulate reasons for you to love me, accept me and value me. So if I do

this job, you'll value me for some people. If my body is good enough, you'll value me.

(00:24:51):

So they go crazy at the gym. And for others, it's if I'm beautiful enough, I'll find, find belonging. I'll find

acceptance, I'll find value. And we all chase different things that we make a different yardstick. And for

some of us, it's a series of yardsticks. I have to be beautiful accomplished, c e o wealthy. And we chase

and we chase and we chase, and we spend our lives on the rabbit, in the rat race of chasing these things,

believing then I will feel whole, then I'll be loved, then I'll belong and I'll be safe. But actually, we get

each thing and each time it's never enough. The body's never quite good enough. That promotion, I

thought I would feel something when I finally got that promotion. It's actually not good enough. I got a

bigger house. I still don't feel whole. So none of those outside things can actually get us what we

believe.

(00:25:49):

But culture tells us it will. And often our parents give us those messages because they too carry that

wounding. They have been given that same wounding. So they give it to us because you as my son are a

reflection of me. And if you don't achieve do become, then I look bad. So these things can be

subconscious scripts running, and you're right, there's such a release. If we can go into those places and

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really start healing, there's such a release and oh my God, I'm loved and I belong because I'm, because I

exist. Really, if we can really get there, it takes work. There's layers, there's so much to it. And I did have

wounding, I did because my wounding was just different. I grew up watching my mother at the dining

table in our little tiny house chain smoking abandoned by three men, all three fathers.

(00:26:52):

For me, it wasn't abandonment. It was a huge abandonment wound because I wasn't just abandoned by

one, I was abandoned by three. So I looked at her abandoned by men, abandoned by life. She couldn't

get a job. The rest of our family who were wealthier and more accomplished in the traditional sense

looked down on her as being less than I was the poor cousin. And they would tell me, you're better than

your mom. Look at you. You're so positive. You're so full of light. So blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That kind

of eighties, toxic, positive thinking vibe. And actually I was struggling a lot with the break-in. So I did

have all of this ordinary joy, and I did have all of this light, but on the other hand, I think I also needed

somebody, a safe space and somebody to take me aside and say, what do you need?

(00:27:49):

What's going on for you? And I just couldn't find that anywhere. So I almost had to push it all down. And

later in life it came out, this is what we do is until we are ready to heal, we kind of put it aside. It doesn't

take from that ordinary joy and that beauty that was still there, but it's not the only story. We are

nuanced as human beings. And so I grew up watching mom abandoned by life and everyone, so I got this

idea, I have to be really special. I didn't realize this. It wasn't conscious. We can get these subconscious

scripts running. I have to be really special or I'm going to be abandoned. And so I took that on I to, I was

quite hard on myself in the sense that not achieving a particular job or getting a particular car or a house

or that was never my yardstick.

(00:28:45):

My yardstick was kindness. Goodness, can I take care of people? My own heart was breaking so much in

so many ways. And the interesting thing was that mum would walk me to the fancy school. So we lived

on a big, dark empty park that had drug dealers and things like that going on. And the school was on

that park as well, the nearby school. And it was really violent. And so I'm so lucky that she had the sense

to walk me to the fanciest school, and that was before zoning and New Zealand, so I could, but took 45

minutes to walk there. We didn't have a car. She went walk me there and back every single day. And so I

was surrounded by people who didn't understand what I was going through at all. They had lovely

lunches in their lunchbox and lovely, lovely backpacks. And although I would look at them, but I found

myself able to listen to them and connect to them and hear their troubles, which seemed seemed easier

than mine in a way.

(00:30:05):

And so I could empathize and I could hold that because I had built this capacity to be with human

suffering because I had to be with my own. And really where I lived inside the house could be quite

violent. Mom could break down and beat me and things like that. And then she would come too and

she'd say, I'm so sorry, love. I'm just not sure how I'm going to pay the bills. I'm just stressed. And she

was beautiful at that saying, sorry. But I didn't really have a place to go inside the house that felt

nurturing and safe to completely. And then outside the house was full of violence. So I used to go in, it

wasn't conscious decision, it was just what the being did. So I would go into my breath and into my heart

and I would feel that deep stillness and light inside and I would reach to, I say, and kind of quote makes

God, I thought of it as God and that childlike way, and I still call it that.

(00:31:17):

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I still think of it as that we might call it life force consciousness, awareness. God, the trees, ether,

whatever, the light that runs through everything, a rock, a horse, you me. But my mother turned to

religion when I was about seven. And so I would go to church with her and get really hot hands and

worship along with everyone. But I was always a lot more loose than I could see through the dogma. I

would say to mom, how is this love? If people aren't allowed to be gay, how is this love? If we're saying

this is right and this is wrong, that's not love. I used to say it at a really young age, and one day I

remember her saying to me, oh, I don't want to go to church today, but we have to. She was quite, she's

young too. If I was seven, she was only 27.

(00:32:08):

And I remember saying to her, mom, a man's hands made that church. It's bricks. Church is here in the

trees. God made the trees. We don't have to go if you don't want to. We can have our church here. And

she said, that's blasphemy. You can never speak like that again. She was so, and still is indoctrinated by

fear. There's a right way and a wrong way. Her God is a God of fear. Her God hated her as much as she

hated herself because we reduce our gods to what we are. Actually Existence is limitless, isn't it? It's

limitless. The body of God is everything. And so,

Warwick Schiller (00:32:59):

Can I interrupt for a sec? You just said that your mom is still that way.

Lucy Grace (00:33:04):

She's still this way. Yeah. Yeah. She's very religious.

Warwick Schiller (00:33:08):

So can you tell me how is that dynamic these days with how you've ended up and what you've ended up

doing and stuff? What's that dynamic?

Lucy Grace (00:33:24):

Yeah, it's such a good question. It's such a good question. I let her love me as she can. I let her be what

she is. Sometimes I feel pain. Everything arises in presence, so sadness can come up because I can't

really connect. She can't really see me. But it's not because bad or wrong, it's because she can't. If I

speak French to an Italian and then I get frustrated because you are not understanding me, the problem

is with me. This is an Italian. They speak Italian and she has every right to make the choices she makes

and to live her life as she sees fit. And who's to say I'm right and she's wrong. We unknow. We do not

know. It's a great mystery. What I like to say about any tradition or religion is it can have so much

benefit. It's so deeply welcomed by me.

(00:34:39):

It's the long as it helps us to become more patient, more loving, more kind, and more whole individuals.

It doesn't matter what we do to get there, but what I struggle with is when it actually does the opposite,

it makes us more separate. I use my religion to show you how you're bad and wrong and I'm better. And

that comes from fear. So if we can see where it comes from, I'm so afraid of getting it wrong that I

clinging to these ideas and rules. So it's not always easy, but I see it as my work. So when I'm with her, I

try to really love her as she is, just as she is. And knowing that whenever she's ready, if she wants to,

she'll move through and come into a place where she can release some of the, but I think any

fundamentalist, like any fundamentalist, and there's many, they take many forms.

(00:35:46):

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You can get fundamentalist spiritual types and you can get fundamentalist campaigners. Why won't you

sign my peace petition? And actually, they're not coming from peace. So we can talk about love, we can

talk about peace, but are we coming from it? Are we contributing that? So if I were to get frustrated and

angry all the time at mom, and those emotions will arise, but I meet them and I process them with

myself. So if sadness comes up, I grieve. I've written a poetry book of mystical poetry. Here's an

example. When mum was visiting and we were at the local market, I'd never really even told her

because I knew that it would upset her, oh, you're going to go to hell that's not, and a man, God love

him in my community, ran up to her and said, oh, your daughter's an amazing poet. Wow, you must be

so proud.

(00:36:44):

And I thought, oh no, here we go. And he said, she's got her books coming out, turned around. And she

didn't even ask. She didn't even say, oh, what's your book about? Wow, you've written a book. She just

said, well, she would be good at writing. I helped her so much with writing. And for a second I felt pain

like, oh, I'd love her to be proud, that natural thing. And all of us, we want our parents to see us and be

proud of us. And then I just let the pain be there, felt that pain, didn't try and push it away, didn't try

and turn it into blame or anger or make her wrong. She is who she is. I watch it come up and I go, yeah,

it's sad. I feel sad, and I'm allowed to feel what I feel, and then it transmutes and then it can go, and

then I can be with her.

(00:37:37):

So there's processes like that that happen in the body and in the body mind. And there was a long time

when I was younger that I wished she could be different. And then I decided, what about all the beauty?

We get these inheritances from our parents, we get an inheritance of shit. They're wounding and we get

an inheritance of gold. And it's all true all at once. We don't want to bypass the shit and just focus on the

gold, but nor do we want to bypass the gold and only see the shit. If we can get to a place where we

hold both as, yeah, that stuff is hard. And we can often see our mother or father standing there and see

their ancestors behind them in a row and see, yeah, my dad was abusive or my mother was whatever

she wants. But where did that come from?

(00:38:36):

She was given that. So she got her inheritance of shit from her father and his father and his father. And

it doesn't make it okay. It isn't their fault, but it is their responsibility. But it can help us with

compassion, but can help us with, she's not bad. She's wounded. What's happened to people all? And

just like me, all of us have our blind spots. All of us have the places we are stuck or bound. And so just

like me, I hurt others. I do things that I don't realize I do. But yeah, it's been our journey and it gave me

so much because if we go back to that childhood period, I had to go inward. I couldn't find connection

outside. I couldn't find in my neighborhood with my family. I couldn't find myself outside of myself. So

when I said, we don't have to go to church, and she said, that's blasphemy.

(00:39:41):

I went through this. Okay, I can never talk about this again. Like this connection I have with God or life or

existence. I can never tell anyone about this. So that's kind of what I did. So I had this, people often say,

you were such a light filled child. I had this glow because I was finding that connection and nourishment

in great spirit in the infinite. And I would sit in silence and listen to my breath and fill what felt like filling

from the inside out instead of reaching for sweets or toys or another afterschool club or lots of friends

or all the stimulation outside of me achieving as to get recognition or whatever we do as kids. I would,

that is all passing, and not by any virtue, just by necessity, I would go in and I didn't realize that's actually

meditation. I didn't realize that's actually a thing.

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(00:40:38):

I had this kind of welfare child. I was alone. We had no money to go anywhere or do anything. We had

no car. I'd hardly had any toys. We didn't have a TV most of the time. And when we did occasionally get

one, we'd end up selling it to buy food. I had hardly any stimulation. So I was like an ashra. And so a lot

of my childhood was like that, being by myself. I was an only child and just going to God and I could hear

guidance. It was like a voice inside me. From a young age, I think I was burnt into being by necessity. I

had to find guidance.

(00:41:32):

But I want to be clear, it is way stronger now, but it wasn't my voice. People say, how did you notice? It

was completely, it was another voice. I couldn't have said the things that the voice would say to me. So

I'll give an example of that to help. But little things, lessons. There was a little girl who moved in across

the road with her grandparents and she had no toys. And she would come to my house to play with

toys. And I had a few Barbie dolls because I would bake donuts and I would sell them door-to-door to

make money. And then I always wanted Barbies. That was what I would buy. And so I had a couple and I

had a few dresses and things, and one day I heard give those toys to her. And I remember being like, oh

no, but I love these barbie dos.

(00:42:24):

And it was like, give those toys to her giving or bring you more joy than keeping, try it. Try it. So I told

mom and mom said, be careful. She'll have to keep them, but you can't take them back. And I said, no,

no. So I took them to her and I gave them to her. And sure enough, I was filled. I mean, this sounds a bit

silly, but I was a little girl. So it's a simple lesson. It sounds a bit pollyannaish, but I was filled with joy,

seeing her face, seeing how much joy she got from them. I could still go and play with them at her house

across the road with her. I was filled with joy and filled with a sense of having changed something for

the better for her and lessons like that. So I would hear words and things.

(00:43:14):

And that was my childhood. I stayed there until I was 18 and I ended up getting into university. And that

was crazy because I had been so sheltered yet so unsheltered in childhood. I hadn't been exposed to

conditioning. We didn't have literature, music, much television. We didn't have many books. I got all my

books from the op shop that my mother worked at the secondhand shop, sorry, I think you call it in the

States. And so I hadn't been exposed to much, and I did go to school. I had a library there and things, but

this is before the internet. So I ended up at university in the big city for university. And by some miracle,

I got into the best degree for journalism in the country and didn't even know how to apply for degrees.

My mom had never been, and I only applied for one degree, which you would never do, right? You'd

apply for a bunch, you might not get accepted. I just applied for one I didn't know. And by some miracle,

I got in. I didn't have good grades, but I did get in.

Warwick Schiller (00:44:23):

Before you go on with that story, I just want to back up just a little bit. I'm so glad I asked the question

about how you said your mom's still very religious. And I said, so how is that dynamic now? And the

reason I'm glad I asked that question is because from a lot of the guests I've had on the, well, I've had a

lot of feedback from people that listen to the podcast about how hearing the stories from the guests

have, trying to change their outlook on life, sent them in different directions, down different paths,

things like that. And I'm sure a lot of those people that that's happened to, it may not have happened to

their spouse or their family members or whatever. And there isn't really a place you can go to say, Hey,

what happens when you start looking at the world differently and the people around you? So that was

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an amazing lesson on what you said was an amazing lesson on how to navigate that space. Yes, there's a

lesson in grace and humility and yeah, I just want to say thank you for sharing that. I really think a

number of listeners will get a lot out of that in relation to where they're at.

Lucy Grace (00:46:02):

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, it's huge. It's a lot of my job. I'm an awakening support mentor as well. So I do

that. So I say spiritual guide. Some people call me a spiritual teacher. I don't like the word teacher

because for me, we're all teachers and we're all the taught. You teach me, I teach you as we sit. But a lot

of people come to me and they will say that, how can I be awake in a sleeping world? How can I change

in all these ways and open my heart and do all these things and my family don't understand me, my

friends don't understand me, all the things. And one thing that's helped me immensely is seeing, it's

funny, but it's the caterpillar turning into the butterfly. It's a cliche, but if we think about the natural

process of that, right, that caterpillar is growing, is changing, and eventually when all is ready and all is

well, it turns into the most beautiful butterfly.

(00:47:04):

We wouldn't dream of ripping out a caterpillar and screaming at it, don't into a butterfly, you're useless.

Why are you such an idiot? It would die, right? The same with our vegetable garden. We wouldn't

scream at a seed to become a vegetable. We wouldn't scream at a flour to bloom when it's not ready.

There's sacred process. And every single one of us, including myself, is in that sacred process. We're

always becoming more than what we are. We're always deepening. So if we can look at another and say

they see things differently, but are in their sacred process, now these voices come in, but he doesn't do

his work. He should go to a blah, blah, blah. But just like me really helps with any judgment. It's an

equalizer. There was a time when I didn't do my work, there was a time where I couldn't do that work.

(00:48:11):

And whether that work is seeing a psychotherapist or clear blockages or woundings, whether that work

is meditation, whether that work is running, whatever we know that we need to do to emerge into the

fullest version of ourselves. There was a time when I didn't, there was a time for all of us, often in and

out where we can't, we simply can't. We're stuck, we're lost. And that is part of the process. That's

actually part of the sacred process to become lost, to be found. So wherever mom is at, wherever you

are at, wherever I am at, can I simply be with that? Can I say, well, that's where the caterpillar's at in its

process. I don't need to force anything. Life is happening in perfect timing, and you can only really

emerge into all that you are when you want to. So I want to say this though.

(00:49:09):

It doesn't mean that I want to spend every day with that person just not nourishing or enjoyable for me.

So this isn't some kind of martyr complex where, oh, I just give and give and I just hang out with these

people, or no, no, no. I see it for what it is. And I say, okay, I'm so honoring of your process. You do. And

I'm going to be way over here doing me. So I'm going to be with people that nourish me, in which who I

enjoy. And look, you're my mom. So if we're talking about family, if you need to borrow money, I'm here

for it. If you need a hug, if you want to hang out, I'll do it. As long as that yes is a really true yes. So when

it gets to the point, I know I can do a few nights and then if it gets a bit much, and honestly, I think it's

probably too much for her too, she's like, I dunno, whatcha on about? And I'm like, whatcha on about?

So we just damage control and do a couple of nights. And then, yeah.

Warwick Schiller (00:50:13):

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So a minute ago you said you were, I forget what you said you were, but it's not spiritual guide,

embodied therapist or poet. It was awakened something. Something something.

Lucy Grace (00:50:24):

Yeah, I do. It's part of the spiritual guide, but awakening mentor. So people who have these deep

processes,

Warwick Schiller (00:50:32):

One lemme ask you about that before you get into there. In case anybody listening has no idea what

you're talking about. How would you describe awakening?

Lucy Grace (00:50:45):

Yeah, it's deeply varied and vast depending on the individual. But there are themes, and it tends to be

when we call it waking up, because we'll have a shift in our being and they can be range on a spectrum

from low volume to high volume, but we'll have a shift in our being. And it's as if we wake up out of a

trance, out of a dream, and we see everything differently. We see ourselves within the world and reality

differently. We see reality differently. We see others differently. Sometimes the borders of our body

dissolve. We kind of become a sense of being one with everything. And I don't want to go too deeply

into it. It might just freak people out a bit. But there's a lot involved in that. A lot of compassion comes

in, a lot of sensitivity. We kind of return to our childlike openness, but in a really grounded way. We see

the beauty in others. We see the beauty in life. But a lot of people when they're awakening can have

really intense experiences. It can be really scary for some people because our old identities fall away.

That's the main thing. If you're wondering, have I awakened? It's like a complete shift in our operating

system. Our operating system completely changes.

Warwick Schiller (00:52:37):

And don't you think there are many, many, many, many steps to, it's not like, oh yeah, I'm done. And

that for me, I had an experience a number of years ago. I've had a few since, but I was sitting around

talking to some people one night and all of a sudden it's like the room tilted on its axis. And I kind of just

broke down. The conversation just kind of made the conversation that was going on made me realize

that, I dunno, it was full of shit or whatever, but it kind of made me look at the world completely

different. But the whole room tilted on its acts. It was the weirdest thing at the time. It was the weirdest

thing. You know what I mean? But it was that shift to where I looked at everything differently

afterwards, especially me and for people that think, well, this is all kind of crazy stuff. It wasn't a big shift

for me. I've got lots of shifting left to do. But it was a shift to where I realized that I now looked at the

world completely differently than I had previously. And there's still a lot of, and since then I've had

several shifts to where, oh, now I look at the world differently again. And I think, I mean, I was a slow

learner. I was 50 before this happened. I basically looked at the world the same way for 50 years and

then had this, like I said, I've had a few since, but I don't want to scare people off. I think it's perfectly

normal and it's part of the journey. And some people may go their whole life and not

(00:54:41):

Make that shift. And for me, what I've found is helping people with their horses, a lot of people, they're

indoctrinated into looking at horses a certain way. You look at things a certain way and you create your

own reality. So a lot of the problems people have with their horses, it's actually the problem is the way

they look at the horse, which creates the problem, which, and once they have, for me, I think that's

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where sometimes I help people with this stuff is once they have that shift and they go, I've looked at

horses like this for however long, and I suddenly realized that was just a way of looking at it. That's not

exactly what's real. Now that I look at differently, the horse behaves completely differently. So I was

creating my own reality with the horse. But I think what that does for people is it goes, gets 'em to think,

what else am I looking at a certain way? It's kind of the way in. You know what I mean? Yeah,

Lucy Grace (00:55:42):

Absolutely. What beautiful work. Wow. That's right. Because we don't see the world as it is. We see it as

we are. We see it as we are. We look out of these eyes and we project all of our own fears, our own stuff

and everything. And people listening to us talking might say, well, what do you mean you had a shift and

you saw the world differently? I grow all the time and I might learn something and I see the world

differently. This is different. This awakening is inside out. It's a complete change. And like you say, we're

ever deepening. There's no end point to it.

(00:56:24):

We can keep, it's limitless so we can keep deepening. And I'm like you. I've had many more, some bigger

than others. People have different, once you get more into this stuff, you can learn about it. But people

can have really significant shifts that can take, for me, one of my big ones took two years to integrate,

and I really couldn't be in the world anymore. The level of sensitivity and the level of, I had to almost

relearn how to be human. So then we can go to these really big, big blast opens, and it's just a

deconstruction and a reorientation of the whole system. So it's not like learning as a child, we might

grow each year kind of, we all grow each year. Hopefully we can descend or ascend. We can make some

have whatever. This is different. It's kind of a blowing open. And I love what you say that a lot of us are

helping each other to awaken. And we're not necessarily called awakening mentors or spiritual guys or

spiritual teachers, but what you are doing with the horses is deeply transformative and deeply spiritual

because it's working with people from the inside. It's rewiring the inside, and everything changes in that

place, right? Reality changes because suddenly I see reality in a different way, therefore it rises to meet

me. I bring in different realities when I respond with what's happening in form in a different way.

Warwick Schiller (00:58:05):

You were a guest on another podcast called The Buddha at the Gas Pump podcast, which when I had

Emily k data on this podcast, I wasn't aware of that one. And someone told me about it, and then I

listened to Emily's on that one, and that was amazing. And then I think Shalan was on that one too. And

then you've been on there, and that podcast is called Bud at the Gas Pump. It's conversations with

spiritually awakening people. I love that. He calls it spiritually awakening people. No one's awoken, no

one's there yet. And when I started listening to that, it's like I don't understand 95% of what they're

talking about on there, but I do get the sense that, oh, there's a whole lot more to this stuff than I

thought there was. You know what I mean?

Lucy Grace (00:58:58):

Yeah. It's huge. I've actually been on it twice. I was on it a few years ago and talking about my childhood

and my life, and then I was on it again just three or four months ago. So I was on it twice. And yeah, it's

complex. And the thing is, it's a bit like I'm reluctant to talk about it too much because it's a bit like

French to Italian. I never want to bore people with stuff if it doesn't really meet them. But if you know

what I'm talking about, if you can understand a fraction of it, you are already awakening. This is the

beauty. Otherwise, it's going to be like, I'm turning off this conversation. I don't understand. Even 1% if

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you feel a tangle or a sense of understanding, even if it's not cognitive, even if it's not conscious in the

brain, but it's a knowing inside your awakening already.

(00:59:52):

And so life is the path. Life is the education. That's what we are here for. And so if any of this makes any

sense, you might want to look into that stuff more deeply. But that's my job now, is as I help, and I'm

booked out for six months, I've got a wait list for my private sessions, but helping people to deepen on

their path and to open, because so much comes up there. And often a lot of it is the wounding and the

trauma that we've accumulated in our lives, and that's between us and life, our fears, our wounds. And

so we look at removing that. There's an old saying.

(01:00:37):

The whole task then is to clear the eye of the heart that we may see God more closely. So all of the

things between us and God, we say, God's not religious for me. And that can be a loaded word for some

people. But yeah, for me, it's life. And it's the call me Eddie version of God, my God, my God's. The Call

Me Ed version, the Dancing Howling. I have a poem that says, oh, keep your God. That doesn't say, fuck,

my God is dancing under moonbeams to Bowie. My God. Is that because we can make God, God life

loves us so much, it will put itself in any box we put in so we can make it what we want.

Warwick Schiller (01:01:25):

Yeah. Shalan has a poem somewhat similar to that too, about, I think it's called The Worst Thing We

ever Did. Have you heard of that one? Oh

Lucy Grace (01:01:39):

Yeah. I love that one.

Warwick Schiller (01:01:40):

The worst thing we thing we ever did was put God in big buildings and

Lucy Grace (01:01:46):

Yeah. Yeah. Shall I read you one of mine? You might like it.

Warwick Schiller (01:01:51):

I'd love to hear one of yours. I actually shared one of yours today on my Facebook group. It really struck

me what you are doing with people who are spiritually awakening, being an awakening guide, like

helping them with that process. Because there's a lot of processes we go through in life that there isn't a

curriculum for. You know what I mean? And one of the things I struggle with is being someone who

never thought they'd really be in the public eye. If you grow up and you want to be a big time

sportsman, whether do you play football or whatever you play, or you want to be a musician, you kind

of have the idea that when I get to be doing the things I want to be doing, that I want to be good at. A

lot of people know who I am. And so there'd be a lot of that when you accidentally end up in the public

eye, there isn't an education on how to deal with negative feedback and things like that. And the poem I

shared of yours today was the one, something about, I think you had a picture of Albert Albert Einstein,

ping his tongue out.

(01:03:28):

But the poem was about what if I forget who it's, can you use that one? I have.

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Lucy Grace (01:03:34):

I have do know. I've never read that one in a reading. I love that you chose that one. That was the last

thing I expected. I have it here. What if Leonard Cohen measured his poems by how many likes they

got? Or Van Gogh reduced his paintings, so one hit Insta shots, then laid down his brush of brutal

comments. What if Fred Carlo threw in the towel due to assholes who said her brows needed shaping,

or her bum needed rounding and it just hurt too much to be reduced? Like if Rumi was laughed out of

town because he released his poems to the wrong crowd at the wrong times, among too much online

noise and full minds to people who were moving too fast. To remember their hearts and grasp devotion.

What if Tennyson decided to lay down his pen because of despair at fucking algorithms?

(01:04:31):

Or if Bukowski was silenced prematurely because social media doesn't favor swearing and we miss the

gold of his particular alchemy. What if Virginia Wolf gave up on the waves because her social media

analytics couldn't get a publisher interested? Or if Einstein couldn't get traction because his profile

pictures weren't that attractive and rendered him worthless? We create for the joy of it, we create for

the delicious agony of it we create because our hearts will fortune stars and we won't let each other

forget it. Outcomes are irrelevant. We simply must create. I don't write poems to be a poet. I write for

the life they bring through my body. And it is a tragedy that some may give that up because they believe

other hearts will judge them. Or no one's listening. Sing your song, sing it loud, unabashed, unadorned.

Let it flood out of you, not a single note, edited out, sing, let it baptize the world with its grace.

(01:05:43):

There's no conformity that will buy us love. It's always love given to a false self. And we know it deep

down. The only love worth gaining is love for the truth of us. The only love worth bestowing is the honor

of the truth of us. So let you spill out of you. The win is in choosing to dance. No matter what others

might see, sing. This world is blessed by your magic. There's only one of you walking the earth's surface.

Sing as if your life force depends on it. Because my love, in all honesty, it does. And this world needs

your beautiful heart.

(01:06:29):

Yeah, there's a funny one. My book has just come out, the Untamable Lights. It's up for pre-order at the

moment, but I never thought I would write a poetry book. I never meant to be a poet. I just would write

poems because they would come and it was a joy to sit in my garden and be with the trees and write the

poems. And then after a while, the publisher in America said, can we publish your poem? And I thought,

that's ridiculous. My little things. And then it just took on a life of its own. And so it's a joy.

Warwick Schiller (01:07:01):

It's a shalan wrote the forward in that. She

Lucy Grace (01:07:05):

Did. She wrote the forward for it. Yeah. Yeah, which is beautiful.

Warwick Schiller (01:07:08):

That's very cool. Now LAN's a mystic poet, she downloads stuff. How does it come to you?

Lucy Grace (01:07:19):

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It's really similar for me. Something opens up. It's an energy. So first I feel an energy coming and then I

kind of ride. The only way I can describe it is ride the energy, ride that wave of energy. And then I'll start

to just write. And it can be really different energies that come in. So that one was kind of funny and

human. And I wouldn't say that was one of my best ones. That was just a funny ditty. But some of them

come in and there's such a force and it just floods out. It just floods out. And then I'll leave it for a few

days and I'll come back to it and I'll be like, who wrote that? Where did that come from?

Warwick Schiller (01:07:58):

You don't think about them. You're not thinking about the words you're putting on the pages.

Lucy Grace (01:08:02):

Some I do. Some I do. So they tend to kind of flow. And then I might go back a few days later and play a

bit with the words. And that's more a mind thing. But they often come through and some just come

through completely, completely cooked. Yeah. I'll read you one that was completely cooked, which

might be

Warwick Schiller (01:08:28):

This one came out completely cooked. It just came out. Yeah.

Lucy Grace (01:08:32):

This one came out completely cooked. And they do sometimes when I need sound healing, I bathe and

cicada hum. When I need ministry, I let the grass lavish. Its deep devotion upon me and the de drip, its

sermons right into my heart. I anoint my feet and puddles and I praise mud. I was never alone. Who am I

fooling? I was fathered by mountains, mothered by ocean. I was taught by landslides and caught by the

woman I became. During them stars serenade me with their chorus of hallelujah, offer themselves up as

pinpricks of wonder and guidance. And the darkness trees salute me, stand guard and strengthen me,

offer their wisdom. If I'm listening, I am all existence. My friends are rocks and praying mantis. I thread

their hearts through mine like an endless chain. Let the sky teach me loyalty to warmth and shadow. The

humility of hail and the sanctity of change. And through it all love a blaze from magma up through the

souls of me. I give the mother my body for colonizing. We are ember and water all at once. We are so

deeply loved just like this without limping, broken hearts full of fear. We are and are sacred mess,

perfect process for this and another thousand reasons we are blessed.

(01:10:20):

So these poems, they just pour out. Some can be about dancing,

Warwick Schiller (01:10:23):

Right? So that one just came out of you?

Lucy Grace (01:10:26):

Yeah.

Warwick Schiller (01:10:26):

Okay. The interesting thing is Shalon does the same thing. It just comes out of her and your poems. And

her poems sound a lot similar as in the ideas they're bringing across is like it's all coming from the same

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place. And what's really interesting is one line in that poem was my Friends of the Rocks. I had a guest

on the podcast recently, a Native American lady named Jordana, Anna Walt. And she has this rock

named Ruga that spoke to her one day. And so she keeps Ruga at home and has conversations with him.

And Ruga tells her all sorts of amazing things.

Lucy Grace (01:11:11):

Wow. Incredible. Because it's all consciousness, right? This is the thing. So when we awaken, this can be

the weird stuff. I used to see trees as trees. I really did. I saw a tree. It was a tree. And when I had the

second really big blast open, I became a tree. I know that sounds nuts. It would've sounded nuts to that

version of me, but I became a tree. I could feel what that tree felt. I could feel it's just consciousness. If

we think of the mist light that animates all things, it animates a rock. It's just the rock doesn't have eyes

and a mouth like you and me, it animates the tree, it animates me, the ingredients, it's all the same. It

just takes a different form. So what animates a horse is exactly the same as what animates me

consciousness. It just expresses in a different way through the animal because the animal has different

faculties. It doesn't speak English. It has a different, we don't know what it feels like to be a horse. We

don't know the intelligence be that they're far more intelligent than humans. Us humans, we assume a

hierarchy and we put ourselves at the top. And it's been fascinating for me to become other things and

to see holy shit, actually, it's humbling. The great well of existence. It's humbling to see sameness

everywhere.

Warwick Schiller (01:12:54):

So Emily is an animal communicator, but she will inhabit the consciousness of the animal. So it sounds

like that happened with the tree. Have you had that experience? A lot?

Lucy Grace (01:13:15):

Yeah. It doesn't happen with individual. So the tree is an object. It's an individual object as we perceive it

in this plane. So it doesn't happen all the time like that for me. It happens just sometimes. But that was

curious, actually. I'll tell you, I've never told that story. I was married for 17 years and I left after a series

of big awakenings. We're still very close friends. He lives a few blocks away and we share a daughter. So

we co-parent her together. And it was a beautiful passing of ways actually. It was just right. But anyone

who's in a marriage will know marriage dynamics. So he had been gardening and he had cut down on my

lavender plants. He had a machete, and he'd gone around and cut down these lavender and I, oh my

God, you cut down my plants. And he thought he was pruning, but he killed them all.

(01:14:12):

And so a few weeks later, he said to me, just in the garden, do you mind, can I cut the fig tree? And I

said, of course. I don't care about that tree. I said it without thinking it just came out. Of course, I don't

care about that tree. Do what you like. And as soon as I said that, I became the tree. I was looking out of

the tree. I was the tree. And I could feel everything that the tree felt. I could feel the impact of my words

of that human Lucy. Her words, I don't care about the tree, it hurt the tree. It felt pain, just like I feel

pain. And simultaneously I was still Lucy, so I could feel, no, no, no, you're misunderstanding me was the

kind of, but yeah, I was looking out of the tree. I could feel its pain.

(01:15:10):

I could feel its fear of being cut. I could feel all of that at once. And then I kind of came out of that. It

happened quite fast. I came out of it and I wondered inside I'd had this huge awakening and I hadn't

really been able to speak to my husband about it. He didn't. I tried. He couldn't understand. And I went

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inside, I had that experience, and I was washing up with the dishes, looking out the window at the tree.

And I felt such awe and grief, like, oh my God. It was actually incredibly painful for me to realize me, the

human, all of these trees are beings like me. And I've never realized, and I've been in a trance in that

way, way. I used to see people hug trees like hippies, hugging trees, and think, oh, idiots. I never just

even gave them any second of thought.

(01:16:13):

I was like, what a bunch of whatever, get out and do something. I'd be like, do something. Go. And I was

saving orphans for 15 years. So I'd be like, you're busy hugging trees. I totally got it. I totally got it. You

are hugging the tree because you get the energy, you transfer the energy between one another. So later

that evening, I went out into the tree and I put my hands on the tree and I communed with that tree.

And I said, I'm so sorry, but I didn't mean that I don't care about you. I wouldn't be impacted if he put

your brain. I talked to the tree, but then I could see I didn't care about the tree. I had said those words

thinking it was a different meaning. But actually in reality, if I'm really honest with myself, I have not

cared about trees.

(01:17:07):

I have not really cared about the land I walk on. It has been there in service to me. There was a me in the

center of everything. And that was just there. And now I see everything so differently. I don't know, I'd

be curious how you see it, but I see the earth as a being. As alive as I am doesn't mean I'm perfect. I'm

terrible at composting. I try my best, but I'm learning and I'm growing and I'm deepening in that space.

And now there's a connection to everything in a way that there wasn't before. And it keeps deepening.

And it keeps opening. So I understand completely when you say this guest had a rock that she spoke to,

whereas before I would've thought, she's imagining it. She's making it up.

Warwick Schiller (01:17:56):

She's

Lucy Grace (01:17:57):

A bit nuts. And I was a journalist. I ended up going into journalism and being, then I was a humanitarian

aid worker for 15 years, going off to crises or orphanages. And so I was like a doer. You get out and you

make it better. You don't, now I realize there's so much from intention and energy, how we walk in the

world is that with patience, humility, care. Because that infuses everything we do.

Warwick Schiller (01:18:34):

Something I've been interested in for quite a while, and we've talked about a lot in the podcast, is

indigenous practices and indigenous ways of looking at things. And also shamanism. And it's funny, from

what I've read about shamanism and shamans, they've all, they've all been, you don't become a shaman

the easy way. You go through lots of trials and tribulations and possibly near death experiences, things

like that. And it sounds like your childhood led you to that. But what you're talking about here with the

trees or whatever is it's a very indigenous worldview. So it's not in the way society looks at the world

these days. It might sound a bit whack job, but really that's how we evolved to actually be. I had Native

American Lakota lady named Jessica White plume on the podcast in the first year. And in that podcast

she said something about the standing silent nation.

(01:19:50):

She's talking about the people nation and the horse nation. But then she talked about the standing

silent nation. She said the trees and the plants and the rocks. And when I heard that, I thought, I never

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really thought of it that way. And since then I've looked into it a lot. And yeah, it's really, it's not some

whack job, hippie whatever way of looking at things. It's actually how our ancestors at some point in

time would've looked at things. You know what I mean? And some of this stuff you were on about, and

I'm on about and things they call it, some of it's called New Age Spirituality. And I can't wrap my head

around that title because everything that I've looked into that's referred to as new age are thousands of

year old practices before organized religions, before organized governments. And so it's like, I don't

think it's old age, a new age, spirituality. I think it's old age wisdom is what it is.

Lucy Grace (01:21:02):

I totally agree. I love how you described that. There was such a beautiful explanation. And subtly we can

think of old wisdom as being less evolved because it was a thousand years ago. Well, we moved on in a

thousand years. No, we descend and we see that with the dark ages. We see that with periods in history

where we descend, like we go backwards in our evolution, but there's a lot of stuff we can even look at

the time of the Egyptian pyramids and things like that where they could build things. The engineering

feats of those days were far beyond our engineering understanding now. So we can look at examples,

scientific solid examples like that where we can see that there's a time in our evolution, thousands of

years ago when we knew more than we know now, we knew how to build pyramids with far more

complexity than we would know how to do now. Right. Same with spirituality. I agree totally. It's not

new age. It's wisdom. And we are going back to it. We are going back. There's so much wisdom in

listening and silence and yeah, there's so much wisdom to be found in nature.

Warwick Schiller (01:22:28):

Yeah. One of our good friends who's also been on the podcast twice is from New Zealand, Jane Pipe. So

she lives in down in Dunedin. And it's funny, she's just started releasing poetry and that wasn't one of

her. When I first met Jane, she was an equestrian mindset coach is what she was. But Jane is so much

more than that. But recently her and another podcast guest, Rupert Isaacson did a retreat here. And

then the day after that, Jane and Rupert and I did an online course about connection and things like

that. But Jane was saying, she said a line on there, it was so cool or a bit on there. She said, when I'm

walking in nature, not only am I feeling nature, but nature is feeling me. When I'm seeing nature, not

only am I seeing, but I'm being seen. And when I'm hearing nature, not only am I hearing I'm being

heard. And I was like, yes. That's the stuff right there.

Lucy Grace (01:23:32):

That's the stuff. It's reciprocal. It's a reciprocal relationship that we have. And the other thing I love

about this connection with nature is nature shows us to ourselves all the time. Every lesson we go

through, we can find in nature. There's a Chinese bamboo tree that takes, you plant the seed and it

takes four years to water. You have to have faith and trust. You have to keep watering that seed.

Nothing comes up, nothing grows. And then at the four year mark, it just grows all of a sudden. And I

often use that because it's like humans, we can be doing the work and trying to heal. We have our same

old patterns playing out. We our same old bullshit. And we're like, but I'm doing that. I'm working on it.

I'm meditating. I'm meeting with my therapist, I'm doing all the things I can do and nothing's changing.

(01:24:26):

And I often use that. All of a sudden something will move. If we have that faith, if we keep coming back

or we can look at a little seed. The way that I always tell this story often about the little seeds with their

hard shell, and they're all together and one seed starts to crack and break, and then the shoot starts to

come up. And as it travels toward through the mud and the dirt, all the other seeds are saying, oh, look

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at him. He looks disgusting. He's breaking down, he's breaking open. What a mess. And then we see that

seed head toward the light and it doesn't know what's happening to it. It's growing and it doesn't know

it's afraid. And then eventually it blooms. And when you watch slowmo pictures of flowers blooming,

they shut and they open and they shut. And until they open completely.

(01:25:18):

And it's much like our process, that sacred process we talked about before, that human process of

becoming the fullness of ourselves, becoming all that we are, we're just like that seed. And then another

little seed goes, how do I become that? And she goes, you have to break down. You have to break. You

have to get messy first. But the pulse of existence runs through all of us trees, leaves seeds, and we see

ourselves in that. We see that there's mud and a lotus, right? The beauty, the light and the darkness,

and it's all one thing. I'll read you one more that's about this. It's exactly what we're talking about.

Warwick Schiller (01:26:04):

Please do.

Lucy Grace (01:26:05):

Yeah. This is called summer raam. We don't need to dress up our spirituality and fancy language.

Sanskrit. Might as well be cicada hum. Church is apple gloss and watermelon. Choir is a chorus from a

bank of summer flowers worshiping sky. Our sacred drum is wailing children stomping sand. I'm an am,

an am. I get my sermons from slugs. I'm schooled by sea glass in the alchemy of lifetimes of broken

hearts. I am more than human. And if I can't trust when I'm scared, then how can I say I trust? If I can't

love here, when things fall apart, then I can't say I truly love. If peace inside of me relies on peace

outside of me, it's not peace. I'm majesty and algae. I am spirituality. No robe needed, no green

smoothie, no building, no costume, no channeling, no download, no archetype, no exclusive circle, no

animal skull, fancy dress. Skin drum can emulate or replace this. We are and are limitless. There's no

guru but your own breath. So don't kiss my feet and feed me sugar. Let's lie in the long warm grass and

worship all the light we can and cannot see together. So that's much like the silent ones standing there,

the light that we cannot see and the light that we can. All of existence is alive around us and it wants to

support us. We can call on that Stan guard and strengthens us.

Warwick Schiller (01:28:05):

Did that one come out fully cooked?

Lucy Grace (01:28:08):

I can't remember actually with that one. Maybe not. Maybe that needed some thinking. I can't quite

remember.

Warwick Schiller (01:28:15):

So tell us about your book. What's it called and where can people get it?

Lucy Grace (01:28:21):

It's called this Untamable Light, and I put a moth on the front of it because it's that we all have from lava

to fully cooked. It's on Amazon, it's on all the Amazons barns and Noble. And it's being released on

November 21st, actually. So you can pre-order it now and then it comes out then and yeah. And I also

hold retreats and I do coming to California next year to hold a retreat at

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Warwick Schiller (01:28:52):

Mount. Oh, you're doing one at Mount Madonna?

Lucy Grace (01:28:54):

Yeah. Yeah. So looking forward to that. And I holding a writer's retreat together, and I have a community

online that has just started, actually. There's about 65 of us so far, and we just come together to

meditate and cook and be with one another. And that's been really beautiful, really beautiful group of

beings. What is that called? That's called Asanga, which is a zen word for community because a lot of us,

like you say, we open in these ways. We go through all of this and we're quite alone. We don't find in

our families, our communities, our workplaces, others like us. Sounds a bit alien finding someone like

me.

Warwick Schiller (01:29:40):

It does. We just had the podcast summit in Australia and everybody loved it. And that was one of the

things they said, being around like-minded people where you can have these profound conversations

that they don't look at you like you're weird. It's not an everyday occurrence for a lot of people. That's

Lucy Grace (01:30:02):

Right. And light expands light like we talked about earlier. When we come together, we actually deepen

and grow together. I see myself in you, I find myself reflected back at me, and it's so key to kind of

deepen and solidify. So we have that group online, and I also run more intimate groups for people that

people can be going through huge things. They can have energy moving through the body in crazy ways.

So you talked about the room tilting, stuff like that can happen tenfold. There's a thing called Kundalini

where energy's blast out of different centers in the body. And so that group is about 15, and we meet to

have really in depth conversations about and to support each other. So whatever's happening, a lot of

people find their marriages might break down or their friends might fall away because they've changed

so deeply. And they do find they come into new relationships and new friendships as time goes on. But

you have to often go through a period of no man's land while the changes take hold. And so this way, it's

just a place where people can find support and it's not all rainbows and unicorns. Sometimes it can be

hard. So yeah.

Warwick Schiller (01:31:25):

Yeah. Sounds amazing. So you mentioned working for orphanages and an NGOs, or sorry, aid

organizations for 15 years. I don't think we have, I mean, I really wanted to go there and find out all

about that, but I really don't think we have time to go through half of your life experiences. So I thought

what we might do now is go to the questions that you had chosen, otherwise we'll run out of time. I

know you've got to get to somebody after this. So the first question that you chose was if you could

spread a message across the world, one that people would listen to, what would your message say?

Lucy Grace (01:32:08):

It would just be that you're so deeply precious. You are so deeply unique. There isn't another one of you

in the whole world with your conglomerate of gifts and beauty and insight, what you see, how you are in

the world and it matters. It matters. So giving yourself permission to be you, letting yourself be all that

you are. And that's kind of an internal gaze. We talked earlier on about the external gaze of mother,

boss, social circle culture telling us what we should be. No. If we can notice how we orient to that

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external gaze, am I enough? Do you like me? And we can bring it inside. What do I think of me? Do I

want to be doing this job? Is this really my full expression? Do I want to be with these people? Your life

is precious, your time is precious and you are precious.

(01:33:16):

So yeah, really coming into what is true for you and picking up the call of the universe. When we get that

hunch, we're doing something else I want to express in a different way. Don't wait. It's now and actually

becoming all that you are. Yeah, that would be my message. We bless. It's not complete until what has

nourished us comes round to nourish others. All of the suffering that we've been through, we alchemize

it into our gifts. The suffering is a gift. We alchemize it into our strength, our resilience, our compassion,

our kindness. We all know that person who hasn't suffered much and is actually quite a wanker, they're

rude, they're entitled, and you're like, you just need to fail a bit and suffer a bit and then you'll be much

nicer. Our suffering is the making list. And once we can alchemize that, really meet that and turn that

into our gifts and let ourselves live, then the world benefits from all that we ourself we're full of joy and

happiness and accomplish and really living in a way that's true. That only benefits everybody around us.

Yeah.

Warwick Schiller (01:34:43):

Do you feel that? I love what you said right then about suffering. I love what you said about the whole

thing, but the suffering thing really hit me. Do you feel that if people change their about suffering and

kind of embrace it, that can be a bit of a turning point,

Lucy Grace (01:35:06):

Huge turning point. And that can be in the macro looking back, looking at what did that, if we look at all

the suffering, what did that give me? So we didn't talk about this, but I was very ill for about five years. It

was six months where I was bedridden. I couldn't walk, I couldn't wash myself. I lost my voice

completely, blah, blah, blah. And then numerous years where I had to learn to walk again and I had to.

So there, that was one period where at the time it was terrifying. It was hard. So I don't talk about all

this stuff from lofty heights. I talk about it from really, I get it in the trenches experience that was after

my childhood and everything. When we're in it, it can feel like the worst thing in the world. I want to

honor that. And I get that.

(01:35:51):

And I understand whatever version of suffering you've had. I'm a therapist too, so I hear people

suffering day in and day out, sexual abuse, violence from their father, all sorts of things. So all of that is

true. And we can look back and see what did it give me when I was sick like that? What it gave me was a

deeper connection with myself. I could only lie there. I could only reflect on my life and think, is this

really if I get well again, what am I going to do with that health? It was the first time I had a sense of the

gift that health and strength is so we can look back on our whole lives and replace blame and anger and

fear with what did it give me? And it always gives more than it takes. It's just whether we're willing to

see that.

(01:36:46):

So that can be a great exercise, but it's also in the moments. So that's the macro. But the micro is in the

moments our suffering opens us, doesn't it? It opens us deeply when we're on our knees, it breaks the

body open in such a way that we can receive life and start listening to life and hearing things and asking

questions about what we want to do, who we truly are. Who am I going to be in this world and letting

pain in? Because what often happens, and this is really important, so we have in the western world the

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highest levels of anxiety and depression. We have big pharma making a shit ton of money off people, all

that. Nothing wrong with that. If you need to have medication, that's totally fine. Most people, many do.

But what happens is we feel, we feel pain and we put a lid on it.

(01:37:44):

It could be someone, our boss said something at work, somebody broke up with us. Whatever the thing

is, could be a little thing, a big thing. We put a lid on it, we don't want to feel the pain. If I can get away

with it, away from it, then I won't have to be in the discomfort or the agony of feeling pain. So we numb,

we go and get drunk. We take drugs, another pair of parted legs, we eat food, we scroll, we shop, we

buy more land, whatever it is, and try to distract and numb. But all the while that pain is under that lid in

our bodies. And we might feel this as a deep discordant hum in the body of anxiety, and we might not

even notice it. We feel it buzzing away and we doing the dishes, going to the job, and it's buzzing away

underneath.

(01:38:35):

If we look and realize, oh my gosh, that anxiety is there or depression, it's repressed. We can feel it. We

can actually stop trying to run away from it and turn to toward it. It sounds nuts. I don't want to go

toward the thing that hurts, but we can never cure an inside pain with an outside solution. It's a lie.

People want to make money off you. So they'll tell you if you get that dress, if you wear that makeup, if

you get that Ferrari, if you get that promotion, it will take away the pain. It doesn't. A wound is inside.

Nothing on the outside can reach it. So to heal a wound to heal pain, anxiety, depression, we go into it.

It's a portal, and when we turn around and look it in the eye and walk toward it, we go straight in and on

the other side of that fear is fearlessness.

(01:39:38):

On the other side of that pain and discontent is peace, but we have to go through and in and feel it.

Now, if we haven't done that, all our lives from zero to 55 say there's going to be a lot of accumulated

pain and then levels of anxiety will be higher because from zero to today, not much of it's being met or

processed. So it might be so high and so overwhelming that we feel it's going to flood me and

overwhelm me. It doesn't if you go in, but what you might have is a period where you feel worse before

you feel better. It's like a wound. The puss, if we finally go in, the puss is all coming out so it looks messy

and yucky, but it's actually clearing. We need the puss to come out for it to clear. So if we can tolerate

that, and we might find people to help us sit in that pain therapists and things, but if we can go into that

pain and actually grieve it, actually feel it, then it can start to move.

(01:40:41):

Feeling is not the sign of a broken body. It's the sign of a perfectly functioning body. I'm going to feel this

because my body wants me to. And all these years I tried to get away from it, but it doesn't go

anywhere. It stays. This is why we get tumors and cancers and get stuck in the body. So when we start to

feel it, it might look worse before it looks better, but after a time it starts to clear, starts to clear, and

then we enlighten all of that. Shadow starts to clear off our system and we enlighten. Yeah. So that's

how we do it in the micro.

Warwick Schiller (01:41:26):

I feel like you were talking directly to me right then.

Lucy Grace (01:41:31):

Yeah, I can see that in your face.

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Warwick Schiller (01:41:34):

Yeah. Yes. That's pretty much where I'm at working through that.

Lucy Grace (01:41:42):

Yeah, that's why I said 55. What's going on for you? Do you feel like talking about it or not?

Warwick Schiller (01:41:48):

No, I've discussed it enough on the podcast. I think we can talk about it afterwards, but yeah, you dunno

much about my story. But I was shut down for a very long time and I've just spent the last probably five

years trying to work through it without being able to actually even get in there. The defenses were

pretty strong and just recently we've started to chip away at it. So it's exciting. Yeah,

Lucy Grace (01:42:14):

That's beautiful. I love hearing that. And that's really helpful to listeners because a lot of people say that

I can't, I try and I can't feel and I can't. And often when numb, if we sense and feel into our hearts, oh,

it's a really common human experience to think, I don't know if I can even love, I don't know if I've even

loved, I don't even feel a liveness in my heart. I can't. I think whatever. And often when numb, because

what's happened is so painful that our body's intelligence has said, we're going to shut this down. And

that's an intelligent response until it often wants healing. When we're in a safe, people will say, but my

life is good now. I've got a wife, I've got a beautiful house, I've got happy kids. Exactly.

(01:43:06):

It doesn't come up for healing when we are fighting the war, when we're in the trench in Vietnam,

fighting the war with soldiers, we're not going to do our healing. Then we get P T S D and we do the

healing and we're at home and our wive's beautiful house, and we're sitting on the couch and then we

start to scream and think we hit shrapnel. And it's the same with us now. It often comes up for healing

when all is well because it can. And your body is so innately intelligent, so it'll bring up what needs

healing at that time, and you'll start to feel a sense of, I need to go in and I need to heal. But I don't

dunno how it's exactly what you said, you can't reach it. Why? And that sacred process, there's a lot of

power and intention in saying if anyone's listening and they're like, I don't know how to even start

intention say to life, say to the silent watches, the silent, what did you call them? The silent

Warwick Schiller (01:44:03):

Tribe. Silent nation.

Lucy Grace (01:44:05):

The silent nation. I love that

Warwick Schiller (01:44:09):

Standing silent nation is what Jessica

Lucy Grace (01:44:11):

Called them. I love this. So you can say to them, you can say to God, you can say to the stars, you can say

to great spirit. You can say to source awareness, whatever you want to call it, show me, help me. Help

me to open, be with me, support me. It's my work. I have to walk to the top of the mountain. No one's

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going to carry me, but come with me, walk beside me and bring the right people, books, podcasts,

whatever I need across my path to help me unlock, to help me open, to help me grow, to help me let go.

And we can never, ever let go of something we haven't held. We have to hold that pain to let go of it.

But what we've been taught for the last a hundred years at least, is toxic positivity. Just go around it and

over it.

(01:45:05):

Just leave it buried. Shut the key. This is really kind of last couple of hundred years stuff and that we had

all these housewives and Valium in the fifties with big smiles and perfect houses on Valium and falling

apart. We weren't supposed to mention those things we're supposed to be perfect and good, actually.

There's such beauty in our brokenness. Yeah, there's such beauty and bounty in our brokenness. It's

what makes us who we are. It's what brings us our goals and unlocks our humility, our fire, our

compassion, our poetry, our connection with horses or people. We can only get that when we feel and

we can't. This is so important. If we numb off or turn off pain, it's not indiscriminate. We also turn off joy

if we turn the

Warwick Schiller (01:46:10):

Volume down. Can I interrupt real quick? Do you know who Brene Brown is?

Lucy Grace (01:46:14):

Yes. Yes, I do.

Warwick Schiller (01:46:15):

I do. Well, this whole journey of mine has been, because someone mentioned Brene Brown about five

years ago, and so I got one, I got a lot of her books, but one of her books I was listening to and she said,

you can't selectively suppress emotions. If you suppress the lower ones, you automatically suppress the

high ones. And that has been the catalyst for the last five years for me, was me thinking, well, I know

that I've got grief and fear and those sorts of things suppressed, but I've never thought about the high.

I've never given any thought to the higher ones. So yeah, I mean even this podcast was kind of bought

about from that journey. So yeah. So what you're talking about there is,

Lucy Grace (01:46:57):

It's so important because we're eighties kids. We grew up in the eighties and we were sold toxic

positivity. We were in rined with just put a smile on it, just chin up, just laugh it off, be positive. And that

was a response to any previous era. But when we do that, we are bypassing what is true. What is true

for me in this moment is my mother just hurt me. Ouch. Am I going to bypass that and bury it? So it goes

into this ice inside me, this energetic tumor of all the accumulated pain that I haven't wanted to feel

between zero and now am I going to bury another thing? In another thing, it's like having pizza boxes all

over your living room. You just throw another pizza box in there and ignore it. Eventually you can't

move. It's the same with pain. If I go over it for the sake of being positive, then I am accumulating it in

my system.

(01:48:04):

I'm not processing it. Feelings want to be felt. So she's totally right. I love that she says that because it's

right. If we numb off pain, we turn the volume down on pain. That volume switch is the same for all of

us. And this is why people often say, I can't feel, I just don't feel joy. I dunno why and can be damn sure.

It's because you turn the volume down on the pain that once feeling. So if we can go toward the pain,

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this is the key, go toward that pain doesn't mean we drown in it. There's a difference between feeling

and meeting what is true in this moment and summoning it. Like, oh, let me find it. I don't teach to

summoning things I teach, be in this moment, scan the body and see what's true, be in silence. What's

true for me right now, I'm feeling some dread.

(01:49:04):

What is it? Look underneath it, look inside it and it'll speak to you. We don't need your lifetime. We just

need the last 24 hours and right now what's happening now and feel that. And there's a difference

between drowning in it, completely drowning in it. We are no good to anyone. So there's a balance.

There's a balance, there's a beauty. So we feel it, we let it express. We might get tender, and then we go

about our day, we go about our day, and we just let it be what it is. Yeah, sadness. Not trying to take it

away or fix it. And I'm not judging it. So whatever's coming up, just let it come up. Let yourself be what

you are. The whole world will judge you. Don't do it to yourself. So if you hear that judging voice, just

like, yeah, I feel pain at this, and just feel it out, not fix it.

Warwick Schiller (01:50:10):

Right. My wife has always suffered with a degree of anxiety, and for the longest time, she was always

looking for things so she didn't feel anxiety. And then the guidance she's had in the last few years has

been more about what you just said was like, don't make it go away. Have it move through you instead

of having a technique to stop it from being there. Allow it to move through. Yeah.

Lucy Grace (01:50:39):

It's a messenger. If we just want to stop it, we're not getting the message, let it breathe through us. It's

like ice, it melts when it can feel the feelings function is to feel, I'm going to feel this feeling because my

body wants me to, and inside and underneath it, there'll be good reason.

Warwick Schiller (01:51:06):

That is the longest answer to one question I've ever had on the podcast. But it was great. I mean, I'd let

you go because it's like that was gold. I didn't want to interrupt any of that.

Lucy Grace (01:51:14):

I'm so sorry you didn't mean to.

Warwick Schiller (01:51:16):

No, don't apologize. That was amazing. The next quest that you chose, and you may have already

answered it, was what is the most worthwhile thing you've put your time into? Something that changed

the course of your life.

Lucy Grace (01:51:32):

Yeah, it was that connection with the real, real, which is that which I am great spirit. So always filling and

connecting there, and then moving in the world from that place instead of trying to fill up, get energy

hits from things outside of me, really getting clear that I can eat the yummy thing or drink the wine or

meet with a friend. But all of that energy that I get from that is going to leave. That's passing. It's

impermanent. The only depletable source of true energy is with source with that, which I am. So filling

up there and then moving in the world from that place.

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Warwick Schiller (01:52:26):

Makes sense. So the next, I'm going to have a guess. I'm guessing in my mind what you answered. The

next question is, but the next question you chose is where do you go? What do you do to relieve stress

or recharge your batteries, or where do you find the motivation to do what you do?

Lucy Grace (01:52:44):

Do you want to guess it or do you want me just to say, and you've already

Warwick Schiller (01:52:46):

Guessed it. Oh, I was going to guess to recharge your batteries. I'm sure it'd have something to do with

nature.

Lucy Grace (01:52:53):

It does. Yeah. Actually it can do, but it's going inward. It's getting really still.

Warwick Schiller (01:53:00):

It was going to be one of those two.

Lucy Grace (01:53:03):

And often that's in nature, and I love to drink green tea, so I'll drink green tea, I'll contemplate life. And I

do that every day for about three hours. And I meditate and I pray and I write, and I let it all move as at

once. There's no structure. I just have the time, space for the shaman. If we give ourselves that space,

often we book ourselves up and we move fast, but we need space and air to listen to what's wanting to

come through as a poem or a thought or some healing. Something's in pain and needs healing and

alchemizing the space where I can just sit and be instead of do. I'm just in being this. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:53:54):

Wow.

Warwick Schiller (01:53:56):

And what do you feel your true purpose is in the world?

Lucy Grace (01:54:03):

It's going to sound really cheesy, but I'm okay with that to be a light in the world. That's my heart's

desire.

Warwick Schiller (01:54:11):

Yeah. Well, I think you're doing it so you don't have any problems there. And the one you chose that

almost everybody has chosen, what is your relationship like with fear?

Lucy Grace (01:54:26):

Did almost everyone choose that? Wow, that's cool. I've got to listen to some of these podcasts. That'd

be awesome.

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Warwick Schiller (01:54:31):

It kind of gives you an idea of the sort of people they have on the podcast because that's not a

conversation that most people would want to have, and almost there's almost been nobody that has not

chosen it.

Lucy Grace (01:54:44):

Wow. I'm so fascinated by that. I thought nobody would choose that. Yeah. Yeah. I think I touched on it

earlier. I go into fear sometimes. It's a process. It can take me time, but eventually I am somebody who

will turn around. I'm only five foot one and I'm blonde, so I'm little, right? I'm little, but I have this

warrior spirit, and it was burnt into being in the crucible of my life. My life was so fucking hard, most of

it to be frank, that I had to become, there's a steal in me. So I'm this kind of love and light person, but

that is grounded in a deep resolute sobriety and a steal and a strength and a resilience because you can

only really be deeply loving in a world that doesn't value love, that thinks of light and love as weakness.

You can only really maintain that and choose that and be that when you are strong.

(01:55:53):

And the way that I got there is to turn to fear and go straight in. I look it in the eye and I'm like, I'm

fucking terrified. And I'm going in. And that's the only way out because what we fear owns us. So if I

keep turning away from it and trying to keep away, it fucking owns me. It's always there in the

background. If I turn and I go, I might have to hold my breath and jump, but I do. I've done it many times

in my life. I became a television journalist at one point, and it was an amazing job for a little girl who

grew up in the hood and I left and everyone thought I was nuts. And everyone said, you'll never get

another job like that. And it wasn't true. So I left. And same with my marriage. We didn't fight much. We

were best friends. We grew up together. We had a lot of money. I didn't have a job. I was a mom of a

four year old. It made no sense logically for me to leave. But I knew he was my brother, not my lover. So

I turned toward that fear of you're going to be poor, you're not going to blah, blah, blah. And I jumped

and I left. So for me, the way to fearlessness is straight into fear, into the eye of the dragon.

(01:57:18):

What's the worst that can happen?

Warwick Schiller (01:57:20):

What's the worst that can happen? Yeah. No, that was

Lucy Grace (01:57:22):

We die. It's like we don't really die.

Warwick Schiller (01:57:27):

Yeah. Well see, that's the thing is we don't really die because we might lose this physical form, but

spiritually we don't die. But see that for me, there's a difference between understanding that on one

level. Yeah, I totally get that. And then actually doing the thing that you could die from. You know what I

mean? Understand. I grasp that. I get that. But then there's the level where you walk that as well. You

can embody that as well as just mentally quantify

Lucy Grace (01:58:15):

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It. That's it. Yeah. The mind wants to know. But the being understands, the mind can accumulate all

sorts of ideas. But this is a thing about spirituality. It's not about collecting spiritual beliefs or ideas. It's

about being it. Can we be it? Can we embody it? We can only give what we embody. We can only give

what we embody. So often there's a gap between what I know, what I know to be true. I know I'm not in

love with my wife. I know that there's a deadness. I know that there's whatever. So I know that to be

true, and it has been for years and years and years and years. I'm not whimsical. I'm not going to throw

something out on a whim. I'm not impulsive. But it's true for years and years, and I know I, or I know I

should leave this job. I know there can be a gap between what I know and what I do, and that's going to

cause pain. So that's a misalignment where the truth of my being is not moving as the way of my being.

So we come into deep alignment

(01:59:30):

When the truth of my being is also the way of my being. And when there's a gap, I'm always going to

feel split, and I'm always going to be in pain from that split. So yeah, I left my husband, but it was for me

as well. Yes, it was hard Before it was easier as much. It's awesome now, but if I had stayed, I would've

suffered far more because of that gap between what is true and what my body is doing. I'm staying in

this house, I'm staying in this bed. So same with jobs that I've left. Yeah, I could have stayed as a

television journalist. It was for our biggest news channel, TV channel news station in New Zealand. I got

a lot of street cred. The poor little hood rat who never had that wanted that, yes, I could have sold out

to that version of me, but I never would've been happy. Truly. So what did I gain? Nothing. So if we can

endure some pain, some discomfort, unpleasant feelings for a while, what we gain is so much greater.

It's the crazy thing. We often avoid that little bit of pain or that pain, and then we stay in the marriage

another 30 years, right? We're 30 years of misalignment.

(02:01:03):

So when we change on the inside, when we emerge in these ways, it asks to be embodied. It's not really

loss when we leave that job or leave that relationship. It's realignment. It feels like loss. It's realignment.

The new partner comes, the new role comes. But we have to give it the opportunity to. Yeah, I'm talking

a lot.

Warwick Schiller (02:01:34):

I could talk to you for hours. We've been talking for two hours now, so we probably should wrap this up.

But thank you so much for joining me. This has been an absolutely fascinating conversation. I knew you

were going to be fascinating, but you were even more fascinating than I imagined. So it was very cool.

Lucy Grace (02:01:50):

Thank you for having me. I'm the same. I know. I want to go back over your back catalog and listen to all

the podcasts. All of a sudden

Warwick Schiller (02:01:56):

There's been some pretty amazing people on there. So give me all your contact details. How do people

find out more about you and what you

Lucy Grace (02:02:04):

Do? So they can go to my website, which is lucy dash, lucy grace.com. And if they want to listen to my

poems, they can. People follow me on Facebook for that. That's a really good way. Lucy Grace on

Facebook and all of my poems are there for free. Some of them are on my website. All of my offerings

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are on the website, and the poetry book is on Amazon Barn and Noble. And it's not just poetry, like

poetry has a way of unlocking truth below mind because it hits us in the being. It penetrates the being

that part of us that never forgets who we are. That part of us, it's like an energetic alchemy because

we're not trying to think about it. It just gets us, when it gives you, I think that's the medicine of poetry.

It moves us. So that's all on Amazon and yeah, I would be so honored if you took a copy of the book

home. That would be wonderful. It's my first book.

Warwick Schiller (02:03:10):

Your first of Many

Lucy Grace (02:03:13):

Fingers crossed.

Warwick Schiller (02:03:14):

Yeah, fingers crossed. Well, thank you so much for joining me and for you guys at home, thanks so much

for joining us, and we'll catch you on the next episode of The Journey on podcast.

Speaker 1 (02:03:23):

Thanks for being a part of the journey on podcast with Warwick Schiller. Warwick has over 850 full

length training videos on his online video [email protected]. Be sure to follow

Warwick on YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram to see his latest training advice and insights.